5 Comments

Rex
Thu 7 Jan 16
Hi Lilly Rose,
It's (a little) complicated but is one of the core foundations of REBT. It is best to read one of the good primers such as "How to Stubbornly Refused to Make Yourself Miserable" by Dr. Ellis. There are many other good ones to start with.
My REBT spin on your idea of teaching right from wrong is that REBT shies away from moralistic judgments such as "wrong." If others choose to have those concepts, it's fine, but it is not the side of the street that REBT works. Having respect for boundaries and for the property of others is a concept invented by humans to promote group harmony and ultimately group survival. As humans are social animals who live in social groups, if they want to prosper, it is a good idea to learn how to get along in those groups and follow rules and property and boundaries. In my opinion, this "spin" can be taught even to young children.
Of course, parents establish rules and enforce consequences.
So, I have no problem with "you should not have have borrowed the car without asking" if it is followed by "because it is against the rules (or because it violates our agreement)" However to ask a question that basically has no rational answer (Why did you borrow the car without asking?") instead of just coming out and saying what's on your mind seems a bit manipulative and "crazy making" in my opinion.

Lilly Rose
Thu 7 Jan 16
I guess I see it more as making them think about there actions and why they did them so they can learn from them. Instead of thinking "I won't do that because I don't want to make [person] angry." They can think "I won't do this because it is wrong" and if they do decide to take that action because they want to make [person] angry then there are bigger issues.

Rex
Wed 6 Jan 16
Hi Lilly Rose,
"Shoulds" can be used in a rational, helpful way. However, the distinctions are complicated, and I believe that humans have a perverse tendency to use them as absolutist, moralistic demands. Personally, I try to avoid "should", "ought", "must" and their disguised variations.
Your example of not asking to borrow the car is a good case in point. I doubt that most teenagers would be forthright and honest or even self-aware enough to admit "...because you would have said no."
Wouldn't the conversation be "cleaner" and altogether more honest and helpful if the parent leads with "I am angry that you used my car without asking."

Lilly Rose
Wed 6 Jan 16
Couldn't using shoulds be used as a teaching technique like for small children or even teens? Wouldn't it make them think about there actions if you ask them why they did something. For example: Your teen took the car without asking. "Why didn't you ask if you could borrow the car" "Because you would have said no." "If you had asked and had a good reason I may have said yes." Meaning you should have asked before taking the car.

rexall
Fri 3 Oct 14
Fri 3 Oct 2014, 7:35 am
Good Morning All,
More distortions from Greta . . .
Someone was offended by my post about about "Disgused Shoulds." First, let me make a disclaimer. I bear Greta no personal hostility, but she is a public figure, probably makes SERIOUS $$$, enjoys acclaim and a fan-base and other perks and spoils. She opines publicly which generates public discourse. I am not betraying any confidences, only commenting on public information that a few million other people saw this morning. I use her as a "visual aid" because she provides excellent, clear teaching points regarding REBT, rhetoric and General Semantics, and because I usually catch a few minutes of her show over breakfast on weekday mornings.
--end of disclaimer--
Short and sweet this morning. During an address to some graduating class somewhere, President Obama took a playful dig at Fox News. Greta apparently didn't like that:
Greta: "We need the President to act more presidential" She goes on, but this short statement is the crux of the teaching point.
There are only eight words in the above sentence, however, it contains one "disguised should" and one abstraction that is duplicitous and functions as a distortion.
1. Identify the disguised should and the abstraction.
2. Why are they problematic?
3. Re-write the sentence to be more honest.
Extra credit, if someone, anyone, is willing to look at my longer post from yesterday about disguised shoulds and point out a couple of examples where I am employing disguised shoulds.
Aloha,
Rex